I would like to hear feedback from @Pablo Vazquez (pablovazquez) or @Francesco Siddi (fsiddi) on this, alternatively, it is possible for us to design an html page from scratch for the homepage of the manual.

The current home page shows two indices, which isn't great. OTOH @Tobias Heinke (TobiasH)'s point regarding the side-bar hiding means this can't be applied as-is.

We could probably disable side-bar hiding, but this has drawbacks for browsing on mobile devices.

It also makes "Get Involved" very prominent, which seems a bit arbitrary.

In D5202#118107, @Tobias Heinke (TobiasH) wrote:

The current home page shows two indices

all docs do. Why should that be an issue.

Most manuals for 3D apps do not. With Sphinx docs it's common and needed anyway because of the menu hiding, but it's not a standard.

a good way to do it without being difficult to scan.

It's NOT there for scanning.

Since this is used as the main table of contents when the side menu is hidden, being easy to scan is important. If there are busy images between it's hard.

I would have updated those images, but there was stuff with higher priority like cleaning up behind you.

This is one of the most obvious things that are outdated still, and it should be fixed by the release. The latest design I have does this without breaking anything. What is your objection to this being committed?

First off, I am all for new images, old images had a strange aspect ratio; causing them to be cramped and thus busy. They also did not express ideas in a consistent way.
I would like to see new images designed by someone on the artistic side. (primarily directing this to @Pablo Vazquez (pablovazquez) )

Some of these same issues we are having here can be said about https://www.blender.org/features/
I say whatever we do here should have some consistency with that page, e.g. reusing images from there.

Regarding double indices, there is no standard here. If you look up similar documentation resources online you will see a mixture of everything; sidenav only, images and sidenav, double indices with no images, ect...

The reason there is objection to these changes is that this feels like we are just removing something because it is not perfect instead of trying to put in an effort to make it perfect.
While 2.8 is coming just around the corner in a couple of weeks I think we should first try creating new images that are:

• Less Busy / Simple
• Consistent
• Clearly describe the contents of the chapter

If this takes too long for 2.8 then we have this patch at the ready and we work a more elegant solution for later.

Considering @Pablo Vazquez (pablovazquez) is already working on the features page,
I do not think it would be too much work to rethink the images used between these two webpages by the time 2.80 is released.

2.80 RC will be out in two days, that's when I want things to be in a good shape. @Pablo Vazquez (pablovazquez) will not have time to create 16 images for the manual by then, or by the release planned for next week.

If we can get good images by Wednesday next week that's fine, but it's not looking like that will happen.

One idea would be to use the style of https://docs.blender.org/ having one simple icon to give a reference. This icon can be an icon from the Blender UI for example. If an icon does already exist in the UI that is suitable we can use a font awesome icon.

when the browser window is small the sidebar (with the TOC) is hidden, that's why this is an absolute no go.

Why not both?

Just put both versions of the content in two divs on the main page. Presumably you are hiding the TOC when the browser gets too narrow with a media query (or a framework is doing that for you based on a class) so just use the same mechanism to show/hide the simplified splash page. At the point the page gets narrow, the TOC disappears and swap the content:

So assuming you put the simplified splash content in a div with an id of "#simplified-splash-content" then you just need something like the following (untested) css:

#simplified-splash-content {display:block;}
#blender-blender-version-reference-manual {display:none;}

@media screen and (max-width: 768px) {
    #blender-blender-version-reference-manual {display:block;}
    #simplified-splash-content {display:none;}
}

In D5202#118178, @Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) wrote:

don't think it's good to show different pages based on browser width (will swap webpage when zooming for eg).

I didn't say to have different pages, just having responsive content, and it would not be affected by zooming.

It would be no more profound or strange than what is currently happening to your sidebar navigation panel and I doubt there are complaints about that appearing and disappearing. Since both changes would happen at the same time the effect would simply feel like the index moves from the left side to the center as the browser narrows. It would feel quite intuitive.

But no biggie, was just throwing it out there while I wait for dinner...

2.80 RC will be out in two days, that's when I want things to be in a good shape.

Wow after more then 5 years of neglecting the docs but now it should be nice in a week.
So an Ultimatum or delete WOW.
And it's very nice to spend hours of uncompensated work on something that will be trashed when the result not pleases.

I'm not keeping track of the schedule.
So soon, UI elements renames are not propagated into the manual (and the numbers one is too long), but yeah the front page.
(and no, that not a simple replace: the patch has to checked carefully to avoid 'needle in a haystack' errors)

We have been updating the manual for 2.80 for quite a while now, organized in T65710: Blender 2.8 Manual Sprint. The front page images have been listed there as a remaining task since a month, it should be no surprise that we need a solution for that for the release.

If you don't keep track of the release schedule that's up to you. We do and we can make changes for the release if the manual team doesn't.

It may be disappointing, but we won't make design decisions based on how much work was put into the design. The very first page in the manual looks outdated, that's a problem to solve.

Here is an updated version of the patch, which uses preview images. I hope this is an acceptable alternative. I would like to merge it tomorrow.

cool thanks,
I would remove the rotation effect: can't be consistent in all, too distracting.

Anim: too much content, just the model with pose handles
Editors: too much, too many fine details
UI: way too simple, doesn't matches the others level of detail
Sculpt: we can't take because of phobia: fear of snakes ( ! )
Phy: no point of focus (only in the corner)
Sequ: too much

Let's commit this. Regarding the rotation effect this style is used on Blender.org so let's just keep consistency.

If we feel like farther changes are needed let us create a design task and discuss any issues there first.

@Francesco Siddi (fsiddi) the images here are a bit over compressed, there are noticeable artifacts. Can you commit less compressed images?

The images are fairly low res... Can you point me with the one that show issues?

Maybe we could up the resolution keeping the aspect ratio (1.5x/2x). Because it is noticeable on all images especially when viewing on high DPI screens, like on mobile.

I doubled the resolution of the images.

Thanks, images look noticeably sharper.